Oh yeah, did I mention that, this being facebook, they'll control the size of your audience?
Who sees your work, how many viewers you have--it will all be directly in their hands, NOT yours.
I know facebook is pretty hated here (with good reason), but I hope as many artists as possible hear about this and stay the FUCK away from it.
Those of us who are a bit older may remember TokyoPop. That seemed like a dream opportunity for young creators-- get your work published! But it was all a scam designed to prey on people who weren't experienced enough to know a bad creator deal.
A LOT of folks got burned by TokyoPop. And this FB thing looks even worse.
So PLEASE tell your art friends!
Also, (more wisdom via Spike Trotman) NEVER, EVER sign away lifetime IP rights! That's the most important thing you have as a creator!
If you want to make money from your work, great! Put it on prints, merch! License it! Etc!
But there's really nothing that's worth complete, total, *lifetime* control of your work! Because once you've signed your IP rights away, that's IT.
corporate abuse of creative types, talent shows
@katwylder That reminds me of the talent show shit-trick. The contracts on those are very "if you're actually reading this fucking thing, the only thing you wanna sign it with is a lighter... on the end of a ten foot barge pole"...
@katwylder a lot of people (even fairly well known pop celebrities of Gen X era) have been stitched up by handing over their IP rights to a gatekeeper (who often doesn't then let them have/share archives of their own creations and/or even even destroys them if they cost too much to keep). There are whole gaps in my/our cultural history (of things that should be online) because of this and it sometimes takes the patience of a saint and mind of a sinner to get past some of todays "IP protection.."
@katwylder can you tell me more about TokyoPop's shadiness?
I only remember it from the consumer end of things.
@polychrome Oof. the TokyoPop thing was... a LOT. (FYI, I was never directly involved in it, I've only seen the fallout.) I will try to be brief.
So, TP made a name for itself by importing some popular titles, and keeping manga in its original format. (Early manga was always flipped.) But eventually, they weren't content with focusing on quality. They wanted *quantity*, and flooded the market by licensing anything they could get their hands on, regardless of how good it was.
@polychrome Meanwhile, the CEO was an "ideas guy" not a "running a business effectively guy." So TP did a million things half-assed, instead of a few things well. Including Original English Language (OEL) titles.
First they basically underpaid OEL creators. Then, they changed from that to essentially asking for spec work. Submit work -> then get paid IF you're accepted.
The contracts were terrible, too. IP rights, moral rights (i.e., right to be credited) all signed away for a song.
@polychrome The pay was paltry, and a lot of creators never GOT paid.
Especially when TP started putting OEL titles on digital platforms. And they definitely didn't release sales data on that, either.
At one point, TP tried to wiggle out of its obligations by saying they went bankrupt ("oh no, we have no moneeeeyyyy!!!") but they never actually *filed* for bankruptcy.
@polychrome If you wanna go further down this rabbit hole, here are some links:
@katwylder well that was a read. What a mess.
Thanks for the information - I also sat down and read the contract^Hpact at https://web.archive.org/web/20090219232107/http://www.tokyopop.com/ugc/tokyopop/uploads/misc/Manga%20Pilot%20Agreement%20solo%20v1_3%20(2008-Feb-01).pdf and wow that's just bad.
Things like this constantly keep appearin in my timeline: online companies abusing their users. (Just minutes ago there was this talk about email, and I remembered how protonmail cancelled a user's account without giving explanations)
Technology cannot save us from corporations (wasn't this one of the main lessons in cyberpunk?).
The only way to save ourselves is not to depend on corporations in the first place. We need reliable non-profit services.
I remember the TP thing as a kid and not really understanding it. There was an OEL title I was really excited about that never came out, and I found the original author and looked them up and asked about the work.
They put a positive spin on "TokyoPop took away my IP" to "Tokyopop found a new creator for it, look forward to it soon =)" I just get so upset remembering that.
@katwylder It'll probably end up along the lines of "Pay us so we can profit from selling your product to a larger number of people."
@saadazim Oh, that's exactly what they're going for.
The only reason to have a ToS like this is to snap up as many properties as possible for dirt cheap and then send try to wring out a line or merchandise or screenplay or something of that kind from one of their acquisitions.
@katwylder It's a sleazy, but not-uncommon practice of casting as wide a net as possible, and catching that one up & coming cash-cow IP that'll make them all the money. -_-
@saadazim Oh yeah. I've heard from comic artists that's not unusual to see some sleazeball wandering artist alleys trying to pick up IP rights for pocket change.
Sequential artists need to be especially vigilant about this. A lot of jerks out there see comics/GNs as nothing more than an instant movie pitch they can buy up for cheap.
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